I am the PTO President of a 3rd - 5th grade school and have had 3years of PTO experience. I just attended our first "official" Exec Board Meeting that lasted 3.5 hours. I need some guidance to a certain situation that arose tonight. Our school held a fundraiser dance last year with great success. Students/Parents were lined outside the door to get in. Part of our agenda this evening was to discuss our fundraisers for this school year so a Board Member brought up the dance. The Board voted and we won in favor of (10 out 11). But then the Principal (who's new to our school) said he's not sure about a school dance and did not allow his PTA to have one at his k-5 school. Does the Principal have a right, after a majority vote of the Exec Board to turn the vote around and tell us that it's a subject that he needs to discuss only with the me (President). We went back and forth about the responsibilities of the PTO and that our rights to make fundraising decisions is up to us and we should be able to decide on the fundraisers by vote. I can see if I was distributing flyers that I would need his approval, but I can't see that he can tell the Organization what fundraisers we can have. Isn't the school itself considered public property and by paying property taxes say that the school belongs to the community and as a community, if we vote to have a dance, we can? HELP!!
Back against the Wall

I don't think it's a case of the Principal having authority to veto PTO fundraisers, but more his role in controlling student activities and how school property is used. In my experience, they do have that responsibility and authority.

Since he wants to discuss it with you, it sounds like the door is still open. The principal may have had (or heard about) bad experiences with dances at other schools. He may have some misconceptions. He may just need reassurance as to the plan. It might help if you are prepared to listen to his concerns and to explain how the last dance was planned, what safety precautions were taken, how many volunteers you expect, etc.

By the way, I recommend you try to never let something be brought to a vote that you haven't privately discussed with the principal (if it involves the school, teachers, or students). This approach really served me well. Sometimes ideas I thought were simple, had repercussion's that we never considered. Sometimes our principal had concerns and we could deal with them or make compromises before the meeting. It's much better if you've hashed it out and have his support in advance.

Good luck with this.

[ 08-09-2002: Message edited by: JHB ]</p>

I agree with JHB especially with a new Principal that you've never dealt with. Our school starts Sept 3rd. I just found out last week that we are getting a new Principal. Now everything that I had cleared with the old principal, I'm going to go over with the new one. I hope she will not put up any road blocks, a couple of reasons being we already have most of them in the works and I have already printed 130 calendars to sale with the approved events on them. Anything that we do at the school and through the school we first talk to the Principal to get it OKed. She knows what we can and cannot do, their are limits, ex: we cannot do any selling through the whole student body just through our paid PTO members. If she thinks their might be a problem she will take it to the school board for approval. If we disagree then we talk some more or go to a school board meeting to talk to them. What ever event we have at the school the Principal, V-Principal or counselor has to be present in the building. Which we like, they support us and if we have a problem we can defer to them. Do as JHB says. Talk it over and explain everything and how well last years went. Try not to close the door of communication to the principal. It doesn't hurt to talk and get all concerns out in the open.
As far as the property tax and it being a community building. I hate taxes just as much as anyone. I think as you do in a way. We pay for it so why can't we do what we want, but even though you pay those taxes you can't just have anything happen in the school building without permission. Because then everyone would want to have something there that pays those taxes, not considering they have liabilities also,like if someone gets hurt or a divorced parent that isn't suppose to picks up their child, vandalism, etc. Also you state something to the effect that as a community and the community wanted it you should be able to. If would be easier to talk to the Principal than to try and survey your whole community for a majority vote, 10 out of 11 votes I don't think would be considered the community. Look at it this way too. We pay state and Federal tax, but I don't think they would allow us to have a dance at the White House, although we might make a lot of $$$ lol. Good Luck!!! Hope you can talk it over and have your dance.

[ 08-09-2002: Message edited by: PTOmomof5 ]</p>

I have to go with JHB (who is so knowledgeable that I aspire to be like her) and PTOMom (who is no slouch either!). When I became prez last year, we also received a new principal. Fortunately, it was our old (she isn't 'old' in the literal sense... just playing CYA here ...lol) asst. principal. She and I had worked on several PTO things over the course of 2 years and got along very well. The one thing that I never, and I mean Never with a capital N, did was forget that it is HER school. She answers ultimately for everything that happens on that campus. It is about respecting her position, at least in my book. I would say that before you get too upset, you check into the state guidelines (oh yes there are...lol) for PTO's, then check into the district guidelines (yep, there too...lol) and finally, the actual school guidelines (not the ones they let slide because they knew it would be okay, I mean the ones that are in black and white that the new guy is trying to follow). You may find a few surprises about the things you have been doing already! Even though our principal gave me carte blanche to do as I pleased (her exact words were "It's your PTO now, do what you want, what you think will work"), I never even spoke to my own executive board without her being 'in the know' first. Some might call it brown-nosing, but I call it respect. I also found, like all other prez's, that it is easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar...lol...

Good Luck!

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: TheMetzyMom ]</p>

Thank you for all the replies- as much as I hate to admit that I was in the wrong to even think that a majority vote WINS- the Principal does have the RESPONSIBILITY to the school, parents, and students to approve or disapprove a fundraiser. And even though it's raised $2000 in the past, it's a topic that deserves a chance for more discussion and further investigation of our "boundaries".
I just can't help to think that a comment that one of our Board Members made that night in regards to "influencing the children to sexuality" may have somehow provoked his reaction. And that comment, as we all know, according the Robert's Rules is a big No-No in that "personal feelings and emotions" are not part of a PTO discussion or debate.
Thanks again

mswind2,
I don't want you to think that I don't agree with you on having the dance. If it worked in the past, I would press to do it again by bringing the principal into your 'inner circle' and explaining how it worked in the past and how well it worked in the past. I would also go armed with the monetary totals it brought in and how they were spent.
The only thing that I (I think JHB and PTOMomof5 as well) was trying to get across was that you have to discuss things with the principal first, before it goes to a meeting for a vote. Like I said before, it may seem like brown-nosing to some, but I think it just makes good sense. In the words of the infamous Martha Stewart (gag), It's A Good Thing.
Good Luck in your endeavors and with your new principal!

JUST A THOUGHTl: You COULD ask your new principal for his/her ideas. You might find something that works better even than the dance! Keep in mind that your new principal came from another school, with another PTO. His/Her head is full of ideas from their previous experiences...