PTO Today

My question is why can't we use our schools tax exemption status? Does this hurt any op's on Grant money? How did any of these PTO's start without any funds and pay for their tax exempt status? Our group has had only one meeting and at our next meeting we will be trying to figure out if we want to be a PTA, PTO, PTSO, or PTO.

i HAVE READ a lot about both groups. Do PTA's make you do certain fundraisers or only so many? Do they govern over all you do? Do they take any of your profit other than dues? Can you tell me down falls for both PTA and PTO's. I know the PTA are really into politics that don't always share the same views of everyone, plus I know about dues, but why are so many quiting them? I want our group to make a good decsion when we decide if we should be a PTO or PTA.

Hi Miami --

There's no reason to rush that decision. So you guys can slow down (on that decision) while you continue to get your house in order.

Stop by over at this link:

http://www.ptotoday.com/ptovpta.html

...and spend some time learning.

Lots of PTOs do operate in a sort of quasi-part-of-the-school manner, where they don't set themselves up as formally independent entities. It's certainly possible to go that way. You're right that you likely won't be eligible for many grants on your own, if you don't have your own nonprofit status, but you still may be able to apply for those grants in concert with your school (example: the Lowe's Toolbox for Education program works that way).

That said, we do think getting set up independently is the way to go for a variety of reasons.

Why are such a small percentage of K-8 groups PTA these days? Lots of answers to that question. In my opinion, the fundamental reason is fit. Lots and lots of groups have come to the conclusion that the PTA model doesn't fit their local unit. They're not saying PTA is bad or PTA is doing anything wrong, just that PTA model doesn't fit what their group is primarily about.

There are really two core reasons to be a PTA:

1. You decide that the benefits/services are a good value for the price.

2. You decide that the political aspects of PTA (lobbying voice at state capital and Washington) are an important part of your group's mission.

And both of those are group-by-group decisions. In the first case, you need to look at the PTA benefits/services that your group will use and what the price of those are and whether they're available elsewhere, and then decide if the PTA price is a good price for those services for your group. In the second case, it's very much about what the parents of your school see as the function of your parent group. Are you formed to build community and involvement and suport around your school and your kids? Or are you formed for that PLUS the desire to be an organized political body? If the latter, then PTA is pretty much the only org with that structure.

But most groups I speak to don't have that political piece as a part of their parent group work. They may well be very passionate, involved, political people, but they don't choose to mix that political piece with the parent group piece. The PTA model does mix those two things. Is that the right fit for your group. It is for some. It's not for others.

Tim

In answer to why schools leave the PTA...when I became involved in our middle school we were using the PTA name. Shortly after we were contacted by the Delaware PTA organization regarding paying our yearly dues. Turns out that we would have to pay yearly dues to the state and national PTA's if we joined them and used the "PTA" name. We decided to save our money and use the term PTO instead.

I was part of an effort to totally reorganize our elementary PTO. We wrote bylaws, got sales tax exemption, and became a 501(c)(3). It takes a lot of work to put all that in place, but does allow you independence to operate however you want and keep all your funds within your organization. But my biggest fear is that in years to come, not all sets of officers will maintain the information, pay the annual sales tax (yes, even as exempt we owe some), file the IRS paperwork, etc. It's really easy for information to become lost over time. On the plus side, the 501(c)(3) status gives the PTO even more credibility and allows donations to be tax deductible. So if you ARE going to run a PTO, I think those legitimzing steps are important.

Now I belong to a different PTO as well as a PTA. I don't necessarily agree with all the PTA politics, but I must say walking into a well-defined structure with everything set up, training available, manuals that can ordered, programs already in place has some huge benefits. It's definitely worth the small amount of dues required.

As far as being under the school's umbrella - I think that scenario can work also, but you are really at the whims of the principal and the district (if they even allow it). In that case, the PTO would function more as a volunteer committee of the school, but finances would ultimately be under the school's control. Not to say you wouldn't have a voice. But who makes what decisions, who "owns" what needs to be clearly defined up front.

This is my first time using the message boards, and I am really impressed with how much you guys know. It is really difficult to do all this research on your own! Having said that, I'd like to share that I was told by the director of my school's region that the PA is [U]not allowed [/U]to use the school's tax exemption. Period.

I'd also like to note that it was important for me to learn that the term "tax exemption" can be used in more than one way. There's the state sales tax exemption, which exempts you from having to pay sales tax on your purchases, and there's the federal tax exemption that means 1) that you don't have to pay taxes, and 2) that organizations can deduct contributions to you because of your tax-exempt status. The latter is the 501(c)(3) that was mentioned in one of the replies. It is a burdensome process to try to obtain certification as a 501(c)(3), and I am not sure it is worth it unless you expect and/or desire to solicit a lot of money. There get to be so many reporting requirements that, in my opinion, serving as a PA Treasurer starts to acquire and/or require an almost professional expertise. For the moment, I intend to apply only for the state sales tax exemption. It's a little less paperwork - though there are still reporting requirements.

I would just like to keep this as simple as possible, because otherwise who will want the position?

Sounds like you are picking up a lot of good knowledge. People don't understand that running a PTO (that does any fundraising) is actually running a small businss - with financial, tax, legal, and ethical considerations. It's not difficult to figure out the business side, but it's not easy, either. So whether you are willing to run a stand-alone PTO and learn those things or whether you'd be better off as part of a bigger organization (like the PTA) is a real consideration. It's not as simple as "keeping all the money" or "politics". I love the independence of PTO's, but people need to understand what they - and future generations of officers - are taking on.

I think both PTA and PTO have their place, but my opinion is that groups need to make an [B]informed[/B] decision what structure to pursue.

Do PTA's make you do certain fundraisers or only so many? Do they govern over all you do? Do they take any of your profit other than dues?

Easy answer, NO.
PTA asks for dues, like any membership organization (Lions, Rotary, etc) Dues for National PTA are only $1.75 per member per year.
Each State PTA sets their own dues structure, I don't know what your state is.
PTA assists with organizational practices. The only restrictions on what you can do are placed by the IRS, In order to have the 501c(3) non-profit status.

I know the PTA are really into politics that don't always share the same views of everyone, plus I know about dues, but why are so many quiting them?

PTA is really into helping children! ALL PTA resolutions are voted on at conventions (State and National) by the membership. Discussion and debate is encouraged.
Why are so many quiting? Who says? While some groups do leave for many reasons, many groups are joining PTA.
It depends on what is the best "fit" for your group.

Hi Diane -- Glad you found the site. A bit of feedback:

1. The groups I've worked haven't found the federal exempt (501c3) process to be that burdensome. And -- once you have the status -- the followup reporting requirements aren't that hard, in my opinion.

Furthermore, in many states the state exemption is nearly automatic/based on the federal exemption, if you havbe the federal exemption. Though it does not go the other way (federal doesn't grant exemption based on state). So if you're going to do one, you might want to make it the federal.

I think you'll find that -- besides the deductibility of donations -- many grantors will alos only consider 501c3s for their grant money.

Tim

This is a fairly significant overstatement. It varies by state, but PTA bylaws have quite a few restrictions that are well over-and-above what IRS regs require. Example: local PTAs are not allowed to advocate publicly for views contrary to official national PTA or state PTA positions. By next year, all local PTAs will be required to submit electronic databases of contact information of their entire membership to national PTA (through what's known as OMDR). Both of these are well beyond IRS requirements.


Who says that many members have left? The PTA does. PTA membership 30 years ago was more than twice what PTA membership is today, and that's despite fact that there are tens of thousands more schools today and tens of millions more schoolchildren. I don't have the PTA unit count from the 60s and 70s, but in the past 10 years, PTA's unit count nationally is down despite the fact that -- again -- there are more open schools than ever before. Net-net, more groups are leaving PTA than joining PTA, and that's been happening for quite some time.

Tim