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	<title>PTO Today Blog &#187; PTO vs. PTA</title>
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	<description>Ideas, news, opinions and tips about what's happening in the parent group world</description>
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		<title>Texas District Takes Stand Against PTAs and Dues</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/10/28/texas-district-takes-stand-against-ptas-and-dues/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/10/28/texas-district-takes-stand-against-ptas-and-dues/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=1221</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For Texas at least, this is a bit of a man-bites-dog story, as this Del Valle district is enforcing a rule specifically banning formally-affiliated PTA groups from its campus.
It’s especially unusual since the Texas state PTA has been aggressive in promoting exactly the opposite policies, trying to get local school boards to make PTA the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For Texas at least, this is a bit of a man-bites-dog story, as this <a href="http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/education/entries/2009/10/20/del_valle_school_district_offi.html">Del Valle district is enforcing a rule specifically banning formally-affiliated PTA groups from its campus</a>.</p>
<p>It’s especially unusual since the Texas state PTA has been aggressive in promoting exactly the opposite policies, trying to get local school boards to make PTA the default choice in their schools. I give the Del Valle super credit for guts, as it’s often so much easier to give in to the organized PTA in a state like Texas than it is to stand up for a concepot that doesn’t have an organizational backing (PTOs are stand-alone). The Del Valle reasoning is same as most of the groups we see going PTO – why should parents have to pay dues to belong to the parent group at their own child’s school?  It’s a good question.</p>
<p>While <em>some</em> PTOs choose to charge dues; <em>all PTAs</em> must charge dues.  It’s a fundamental difference.  In the end, my conclusion is the same:  I’m for parent groups and involvement, no matter the acronym.  Did find this article intriguing, though.</p>
<p>Two quick notes:  1. <a href="/pto-today-articles/article/292-pto-vs-pta-whats-the-difference">Our PTO v PTA page</a> sheds even more light on the issue; and 2. <a href="/events/expo_learn_more.html#Houston">Our PTO Expo is actually coming to Texas</a> (among other places) this spring.  I’ll be giving a keynote at the Texas event on best PTO and PTA habits.</p>
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		<title>PTO v PTA Stories in the News</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/09/28/pto-v-pta-stories-in-the-news/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/09/28/pto-v-pta-stories-in-the-news/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Running Your Group]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=1136</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems there’s a lot of PTO v PTA action these days.  I’ve certainly been getting more than the usual number of emails and calls. And the news media has picked up the story several times of late.  The latest is a comprehensive feature in Washington Post on two high schools going PTO in Virginia and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems there’s a lot of PTO v PTA action these days.  I’ve certainly been getting more than the usual number of emails and calls. And the news media has picked up the story several times of late.  The latest is a comprehensive <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/27/AR2009092702891.html" target="_blank">feature in Washington Post on two high schools going PTO</a> in Virginia and the related membership trends in that area.  The number that jumps out at me is that both those groups had 1,000 members. Wow.  Huge groups, but 1,000 members also means $3,000 per group in dues paid to state and national PTA.  Average PTA unit pays roughly $1,000 in dues.   (Note: you’ll find another fairly long take on the <a href="http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=333014&amp;paper=72&amp;cat=104" target="_blank">Woodson High PTA going PTO</a> in this local paper coverage.)</p>
<p>And a third <a href="http://www.chesterfieldobserver.com/news/2009-09-16/home/003.html" target="_blank">Virginia PTA going PTO</a> is covered in this smaller article.</p>
<p>This Michigan feature looks at the whole PTO v PTA issue with the main conclusion that <a href="http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2009/09/pta_vs_pto_same_goals_but_diff.html" target="_blank">both groups do great work for kids</a>.  We agree!</p>
<p>Obviously, it’s a lively issue.  Whether you’re a PTA thinking about switching to PTO or a PTO thinking about going PTA or even a brand new group deciding on a format, <a href="http://www.ptotoday.com/pto-vs-pta-differences-at-a-glance">our new PTO and PTA Differences at a Glance chart</a> should be a big help.</p>
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		<title>PTA Switches to PTO to &#8220;Involve the Whole Community&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/08/31/pta-switches-to-pto-to-involve-the-whole-community/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/08/31/pta-switches-to-pto-to-involve-the-whole-community/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting analysis from this group in Massachusetts, as they make the switch from PTA to PTO. The biggest reason: they wanted to include everyone and get rid of the &#8220;who&#8217;s a member and who&#8217;s not a member&#8221; idea. Also felt that perceived PTA fundraising restrictions were getting in their way.
I&#8217;ve always been a fan of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting analysis from this group in Massachusetts, as <a href="http://www.newburyportnews.com/punews/local_story_239233250.html">they make the switch from PTA to PTO</a>. The biggest reason: they wanted to include everyone and get rid of the &#8220;who&#8217;s a member and who&#8217;s not a member&#8221; idea. Also felt that perceived PTA fundraising restrictions were getting in their way.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always been a fan of the no-dues model for PTOs (not allowed for PTAs and optional for PTOs) for that very reason, seems funny to me that parents have to pay dues to belong to the parent group at their own children&#8217;s school.  My column on <a href="https://www.ptotoday.com/pto-today-articles/article/465-just-say-no-to-dues">saying no to dues for parent groups and PTOs and PTAs is here</a>.</p>
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		<title>Mass PTA, State School Board and Controversy</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/parent-involvement/2009/08/20/mass-pta-state-school-board-and-controversy/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/parent-involvement/2009/08/20/mass-pta-state-school-board-and-controversy/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parent Involvement]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tough op/ed in yesterday’s Boston Herald on still-controversial PTA-dedicated seat on state board of education. As far as I know, Massachusetts (my home state) is the only state in country with such an arrangement for PTA, which is curious considering that Massachusetts schools are very nearly the least PTA-centric schools in the country (far, far [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p class="MsoNormal">Tough <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a href="http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1191935">op/ed in yesterday’s Boston Herald on still-controversial PTA-dedicated seat on state board of education</a></span><a href="http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1191935">.</a> As far as I know, Massachusetts (my home state) is the only state in country with such an arrangement for PTA, which is curious considering that Massachusetts schools are very nearly the least PTA-centric schools in the country (far, far more PTOs  than PTAs in the Bay State).</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The article get a few items wrong, in my opinion, especially where it equates PTOs with bake sales and implies that local PTAs don’t do that kind of work.  Fact on that count is that local unit PTAs and local PTOs are virtually the same on the types of activities they run.  Both great and generous and enthusiastic supporters of their schools and kids.  This political bent is typically reserved for the state and national levels of PTA.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Will continue to follow this story.  Is surprising that the PTA appointee is implying that parents’ own voices should be over-ridden by those who supposedly know better.  That’s the kind of approach schools have taken for far too long and that parent involvement experts (the PTA among them) have been trying to change.  Hopefully, it was a mis-characterization of Ms. Kaplan’s point of view.</p>
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		<title>Iowa PTA membership numbers &#8212; interesting discussion</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/uncategorized/2009/08/06/iowa-pta-membership-numbers-interesting-discussion/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/uncategorized/2009/08/06/iowa-pta-membership-numbers-interesting-discussion/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Running Your Group]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Tim's Tip]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=973</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ran across this article about membership in Iowa&#8217;s PTA groups and  the interesting discussion that follows.  Good look at trends in Iowa state PTA membership (down to 13,000 members from 24,000 15 years ago).
Author, though, makes the classic mistake of equating lower PTA membership with less parent involvement in Iowa, when lower PTA membership really [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ran across this <a href="http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090803/NEWS02/908030319">article about membership in Iowa&#8217;s PTA groups</a> and  the interesting discussion that follows.  Good look at trends in Iowa state PTA membership (down to 13,000 members from 24,000 15 years ago).</p>
<p>Author, though, makes the classic mistake of equating lower PTA membership with less parent involvement in Iowa, when lower PTA membership really just means lower PTA membership.  Odds are that a huge chunk of that decline is groups leaving the PTA to form independent PTOs.  When that happens, involvement isn&#8217;t less; it just has a different name.</p>
<p>Also worth taking a read of the comments section. Good insight there as to what you&#8217;re up against (and how groups are often perceived) in trying to engage more parents.  Is your group viewed as a clique? The answer to that question  I actually wrote a <a href="http://www.ptotoday.com/pto-today-articles/article/380">column on this clique topic</a> a couple of years back.</p>
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		<title>National PTA Stats Updated</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/06/29/national-pta-stats-updated/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/06/29/national-pta-stats-updated/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Finance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parent Group News]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The annual national PTA convention, which ends today in Florida, is always a good marker for tracking financial performance of the well-known national non-profit for past year.
From my reading of various public documents, a few key items:
Membership &#8211; 5.16 million in 23,094 units.  Membership year earlier = approx. 5.4 million.
Revenue of national PTA = $12.5 million.  [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The annual national PTA convention, which ends today in Florida, is always a good marker for tracking financial performance of the well-known national non-profit for past year.</p>
<p>From my reading of various public documents, a few key items:</p>
<p>Membership &#8211; 5.16 million in 23,094 units.  Membership year earlier = approx. 5.4 million.</p>
<p>Revenue of national PTA = $12.5 million.  Revenue year earlier = $13.2 million. </p>
<p>Expenses of national PTA = 13.2 million. Expenses year earlier = $13.1 million.</p>
<p>Net realized and unrealized loss on PTA investments (fancy term for stock market losses) in past year = $3.6 million.   (I think everyone who has a 401k knows that pain this past year. Ouch.)  Still a good chunk of assets ($14 million) as safety net even after that loss.</p>
<p>National PTA Employee Count 2009 = 81.  2008 = 73. </p>
<p>My reading:  Expenses and employee count going up is going to be a tough mix with membership still going down.  It&#8217;s been several years now since last national dues increase.  Next increase has to at least be under consideration.  Was surprised that there seemed to be little if any questions re: these financials at the national meeting.</p>
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		<title>Another parent group theft story, big one</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/06/26/another-parent-group-theft-story-big-one/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/pto-vs-pta/2009/06/26/another-parent-group-theft-story-big-one/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Gundlach</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Finance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Protect Your Group]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Running Your Group]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This time the stealing from the PTA was done by a couple! Ugh. When the parents at Erdenheim Elementary School in Erdenheim, PA, decided to switch from a PTA to PTO an audit was done and numbers just weren&#8217;t adding up&#8230; to the tune of $17,000! Ouch. Unfortunately, this group learned the hard way about the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This time the <a href="http://www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2009/06/23/ambler_gazette/doc4a4120bade877416536722.txt">stealing from the PTA</a> was done by a couple! Ugh. When the parents at Erdenheim Elementary School in Erdenheim, PA, decided to switch from a PTA to PTO an audit was done and numbers just weren&#8217;t adding up&#8230; to the tune of $17,000! Ouch. Unfortunately, this group learned the hard way about <a href="http://www.ptotoday.com/pto-today-articles/article/348-preventing-theft--why-its-crucial">the importance of fiscal controls in PTOs and PTAs. </a></p>
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		<title>The Dangers of Politics for PTOs and PTAs</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/parent-involvement/2009/06/09/the-dangers-of-politics-for-ptos-and-ptas/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/parent-involvement/2009/06/09/the-dangers-of-politics-for-ptos-and-ptas/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parent Group News]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parent Involvement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Running Your Group]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This heated debate about a PTOs role in a local education vote from a Connecticut website is interesting on several levels.
First, it&#8217;s a real look into the passions that are so much a part of local politics, especially around schools. I give credits to both sides here for their engagement.  Much better than the opposite (apathy).
But [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This <a title="Connecticut PTO poitics" href="http://www.woodstockctcafe.com/2009/06/08/response-to-a-%E2%80%9Chealthy-debate%E2%80%9D-by-anthony-walker/" target="_blank">heated debate about a PTOs role in a local education vote </a>from a Connecticut website is interesting on several levels.</p>
<p>First, it&#8217;s a real look into the passions that are so much a part of local politics, especially around schools. I give credits to both sides here for their engagement.  Much better than the opposite (apathy).</p>
<p>But the debate captures very well what almost inevitably happens when the local PTO or PTA gets actively involved on one side or the other of a political issue. Politics by definition are divisive.  And groups that take political stands need to do so expecting acrimony.</p>
<p>The PTO critic in the linked debate captures the danger:</p>
<blockquote><p>I did not know that my children were being used to raise money for an organization that can advocate for anything. I would be happy to have my kids raise money for the WEF, since they have it in their by-laws that they can not advocate for any political issue. Whether we like it or not, and I don’t, this has become a political issue.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve been saying for a long time that the vast majority of parents/members of local PTOs and PTAs don&#8217;t think of the parent group as a political organization. They think of it as a parent involvement and community-building and support organization.  This debate captures that fairly well.</p>
<p>For the record, I don&#8217;t have a problem with this Connecticut PTO.  Sounds like they have a very active, successful group and they were above board in their work here.  We&#8217;ve worked with many groups (PTAs obviosulsy and also many PTOs) who do feel like politics is part of their function, especially on school issues.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s my observation that political work and &#8220;grow community/build involvement at school&#8221; goials are often in direct conflict with one another.  Good for PTOs to be fully aware of that before heading down the political path. </p>
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		<title>Texas PTA Challenges</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/parent-involvement/2009/04/08/texas-pta-challenges/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/parent-involvement/2009/04/08/texas-pta-challenges/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parent Group News]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parent Involvement]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This Dallas feature takes an interesting look at Texas state PTA membership and parent volunteering trends in the Lone Star State.  Looks like Texas PTA membership is down 200,000 in last 15 years or so at a time when Texas student enrolment is up by 1 million or so.  I was surprised to see this, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This Dallas feature takes an interesting look at <a title="Texas PTA membership" href="http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-ptadecline_07met.ART0.State.Edition1.4a7f289.html" target="_blank">Texas state PTA membership and parent volunteering trends in the Lone Star State</a>.  Looks like Texas PTA membership is down 200,000 in last 15 years or so at a time when Texas student enrolment is up by 1 million or so.  I was surprised to see this, as Texas PTA has traditionally been one of the strongest and most aggressive state PTAs on membership development.</p>
<p>One missing piece from the article is the possibility that the PTA membership decline does not necessarily mean a decline in parent volunteering as a whole.  If an existing PTA disbands and becomes a PTO (as has happened quite a bit across the country), PTA membership goes down but parent volunteering does not.   Not sure if that&#8217;s a cause of the Texas numbers per se, but certainly a possibility.</p>
<p>Do think the article captures an interesting phenomenon that I&#8217;m sure *is*a factor in Texas.  Many immigrant parents do not think of parent involvement in same ways that many long-time citizens may think of as &#8220;traditional&#8221;.  That&#8217;s a definite challenge for all schools and parent groups.  <a title="PTO Today on immigrant parents" href="http://www.ptotoday.com/pto-today-articles/article/298" target="_blank">Some thoughts on that in this feature story on engaging immigrant parents</a>.</p>
<p>Interested in your thoughts on the Texas PTA membership story as well as your own creative solutions for connecting with multi-cultural parents.</p>
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		<title>Utah legislator proposes no-dues-required rule for PTAs and PTOs</title>
		<link>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/parent-involvement/2009/02/18/utah-legislator-looks-to-open-up-pta-stranglehold/</link>
		<comments>http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/parent-involvement/2009/02/18/utah-legislator-looks-to-open-up-pta-stranglehold/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>tsullivan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[PTO vs. PTA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parent Group News]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Parent Involvement]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ptotoday.com/ptoblog/?p=900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have been hearing more and more chatter from Utah these days around PTO v PTA issues. Utah has always been a heavily PTA state, but there&#8217;s been a not-insignificant number of media stories and small dust-ups in the past year or so re: local groups exploring options. 
Interesting, therefore, that this state senator is forwarding a bill to [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have been hearing more and more chatter from Utah these days around PTO v PTA issues. Utah has always been a heavily PTA state, but there&#8217;s been a not-insignificant number of media stories and small dust-ups in the past year or so re: local groups exploring options. </p>
<p>Interesting, therefore, that this state senator is forwarding a bill to open up the state,<a title="Utah PTA bill proposed" href="http://deseretnews.com/user/comments/1,5143,705285666,00.html" target="_blank"> hoping to prohibit requiring dues for parent involvement</a>.   One obvious implication of the bill &#8212; as noted by Utah PTA president &#8212; would be a conflict with standard PTA bylaws, which require dues for all members.  Will follow this story as it progresses.</p>
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