Before we started discussing whether or not the profit percentages mattered, ptobrenda asked what West Coast's percentages were. I found the answer. It's on the contract that you can download from their website. Just go to the brochure page, and under each brochure you'll see a link for the contract.

The gist of it is that they run 40%-55% depending on the program, with a 60% profit bonus flyer on the spring program and a 95% profit on flat $10 donations, which they list as an option on the materials the kids take home (they keep the 5% to cover the cost of prizes, since each donation counts as an item sold for the prize program).

I can also tell you that I was extremely impressed with them.

They have a lot of customization available, like letting you take the magazines out of the brochure, letting you choose whether or not to add the separate food catalog, etc.

The catalog selection is also excellent, with only 4 items costing more than $20 (magazines count as one item).

Their incentive program is the best of everyone that I looked at (a list which is fairly long), and includes gifts for teachers, volunteers ($300 worth), a special Teacher Boutique, a counting day survival kit, a sample kit to display on back to school night (which you get to keep) and even a banner to hang at the school (something we usually spend $40 on).

They have great early sign on bonuses, and I love the Character Education component (Be a Buddy, Not a Bully).

The prize program is pretty standard, at least in comparison to the other companies I looked at, but it is cumulative, and by the time a child has sold 6 items they've earned 7 prizes and 3 entries into a drawing for one of 10 bonus prizes. Top prize is at 100 items.

Shipping is free (which I thought was standard but is one of the reasons we're changing companies, so maybe it's not).

They also addressed the Giftco situation head on without having to be asked. There was a letter in the packet I received explaining that the enclosed catalog was the new one and had been revised because of the demise of Giftco, and how that meant that many of the licensed items that they had offered before would no longer be available. This impressed me as some of the other companies I looked at tried dodging the question when I asked it, or just assured me that they weren't being affected.

We've decided to give them a try in the fall, and I'll let you all know how it turns out. I'm actually really excited about it.

Tim,

As always, you are correct. We do seem to get a little passionate about this subject. PTO Mindy is correct, catalog sales are the number one money producer in the country, but according to the fund raising industry, those catalog sales do include cookie dough and other frozen items. Indeed, some companies have "blended" the two into one catalog offering both gift items and frozen products.

I am also glad to see that Innisbrook still offers most of their gift wrap at $7.00--good for them! However, their non-gift wrap items seem to be on par with all other companies, mostly overpriced products from overseas.

Catalog sales have been going down for a number of years. Perhaps there are many reasons why this has happened. I still believe high markups from companies and schools asking for higher percentages are the main blame. Here is a little story that I think everyone should read and might put things into perspective.

"Once upon a time, there was company that made candles and they decided to sell the candles to a school. The candles cost $5.00 each and the school made 35% on each one sold. Well the school sold thousands of the candles, and the candle company could hardly keep up with production. The next year, the candle company told the school, we are now going to sell the candles for $6.00. No problem, both the school and the candle company still made a lot of money and they sold almost the same amount as the past year.

The next year, a new company came into town and said, we have a candle that you can make 40% on, but it will cost $8.00. The school thought and said okay, we want to make more. The sales at $8.00 were okay, but the school sold less then before. The previous candle company wanted their business back, so they told the school, you can make 51% on every candle sold, but the candles will now cost $10.00. Wow, thought the school, we will make 51% of all the sales. Guess what happened, the sales dropped again and even with making 51% profit, the school made far less than they did when they sold the candles for $5.00 The moral of the story is simple--the candle was that now cost $10.00 was still a $5.00 candle!"

Thank you shinningmountain!!

Hi PTO and middleage --

Thanks for the input. I'm not adverse to industry folks offering this kind on insight -- I think PTOers understanding the economics of product fundraising can only help.

Would ask that you try to get a feel for the spirit and tone of these boards when offering that insight. An extra minute spent working on the tone/presentation of your insights will be helpful for all, and -- I imagine -- will also allow your words to be heard more openly by all.

Tim

Please show us the statistics Middle age dad. You are incorrect. Catalog sales are still the number one money maker, period. Yes, I agree some catalogs have nothing but junk from china way overpriced, but that's why it's important for groups to research where the products are made, how they compare to what's in the stores, etc.

If you look at gift wrap or any products compared to pricing/quantity years ago, of course prices have gone up, quantity down. Look at products in the grocery store...the same peanut butter I've been buying for years has gone up over 50 cents and the quanity was reduced by at least 1/4. That's unfortunately the sign of the times. If you compare a roll of 55 pound quality gift wrap for instance from Innisbrook (that's who our school has used for years), you can wrap 12 shirt boxes plus several smaller boxes with one $7 roll (PLUS, no tax and our school gets 50%). At Target or other retail store it would cost you $15 to wrap the same amount, PLUS you pay tax and our school recieves NOTHING back. To me....and our parents, they realize this is a great value. This data came from my chairpersons 2008 planning guide by the way. Ever seen a roll of Hallmark gift wrap? You pay about $4-7 for their roll and you would be LUCKY to wrap 3 shirt boxes with it. Where's the value?

I think you need to get your facts in order before just blurting out things that confuse PTO members when it comes to making the right decisions for their schools.

PTO Mindy, where are you getting your cookie dough? If your tub only makes 24 cookies, they must be pretty big cookies! Look, you are right, catalog sales produce more money than other fund raisers. But in the last few years, cookie dough sales AND other types of fund raising efforts have grabbed a bigger share of the overall dollars raised. You are also right that I should not lump all catalog sales together, but please point out a company that offer lower priced items. Let's take gift wrap for example. You now get 36 square feet for $8 and up. It seemed only a few years ago gift wrap was $6.00 and the customer received 60 square feet. What happened? Did gift wrap go up that much in price? Of course not, but once companies started offering 50%, huge signing bonuses, Internet sales, and $1.25 catalogs, companies had to raise their prices and reduce the amount the customer receives. The value is no longer there. I think people realize that when a school sells these products, they are going to cost more than those found at the store. But it has got way out of hand. That is why more and more schools are saying no to the catalog sales and looking elsewhere.

You can knock the cookie dough sales if you wish, but they do very well. However, I do worry about the future of these products. You can see it coming. Cookie dough that sold for $10 and $11 just three years ago is now selling for $14 and $15. Additionally, the tubs only contain 2.7 pounds, not 3 pounds as before. Some companies are introducing a 2 pound container. Once cookie dough reaches a retail price of $15 for 2 pounds, will people buy it?

Once last thought, I can remember when a school would MAKE (not sell) $30,000 selling a tri-fold brochure that featured 12 different chocolate and cheese products. None of the items retailed for more than $6.00 and the school made 35-40% profit. Everyone was happy---the school, the company, and the customers.