This article is part of the following categories:
Bylaws/Nonprofit
PTO vs. PTA
PTO vs. PTA FAQs
Answers to some basic questions about PTOs and PTAs, including how to get started organizing your group.
- What does "PTO" mean?
- What's the difference between "PTO" and "PTA"?
- How do I start a PTO?
- How do we change from a PTA to a PTO?
- Can we join/contact the National PTO?
- More questions?
1. What does "PTO" mean?
"PTO" typically stands for "parent-teacher organization" and is the general acronym for the 75 percent of groups that choose to remain independent of the National PTA. Many independent groups refer to themselves as a PTO; others have acronyms such as HSA (Home and School Association), PCC (Parent Communication Council), or the like. All independent groups (those not affiliated with the National PTA) fall under the PTO umbrella.
2. What's the difference between "PTO" and "PTA"?
In a nutshell, PTAs are local groups that affiliate with the National PTA. These groups pay dues to their respective state PTAs and to the National PTA, and they receive benefits from those organizations. "PTO" is the general acronym for the many groups (PTOs, PCCs, HSAs, etc.) that choose to remain independent. PTOs are free to write their own bylaws, and they can either not charge dues at all (a nice touch to encourage involvement) or keep whatever dues they do charge at their school. While "PTA" is the most well-recognized acronym to the general public (perhaps because of the Harper Valley song and movie), these days more than 75 percent of K-8 parent-teacher groups are actually independent PTOs. Of the more than 112,000 K-12 schools in the United States, fewer than 22,000 of those still have formally affiliated PTA units. We published a feature story on the PTO vs. PTA issue in PTO Today magazine.
For many years, being a PTO did mean being completely independent with no assistance or help available. Since 1999, however, independent groups have had the many resources provided by PTO Today to help them do their work even more effectively. The vast majority of PTO Today's resources—our 80,000-circulation print magazine and most of the ptotoday.com website, for example—are provided free of charge to all parent-teacher groups, no matter the acronym.
Those parent groups that want to retain their independence but still receive many of the benefits of a group affiliation also have access to PTO Today Plus, a custom package of discounts, expertise, products, and service available to PTO Today Plus member groups.
There are several common myths about PTOs (reprinted in one form or another on many state PTA websites and/or the National PTA website):
MYTH No. 1: PTAs are nonprofit organizations, formed by parents and independent of public schools or control by schools, school districts, and school employees. PTOs are not that way.
There is no difference whatsoever between PTOs and PTAs on this matter. PTOs can be every bit as independent as PTAs are. There are certainly groups that are perhaps too subservient to their school principals, but this happens to both PTAs and PTOs. The actions of your group—and how you create, develop, and sustain your relationship with your principal—determine your independence, not your acronym. Similarly, the acronym has nothing to do with whether a group can be a federally approved (501c3) nonprofit. Tens of thousands of active PTOs are recognized by the IRS. You'll find a ton of help (for free) on this website and the IRS website for gaining that official designation. And one of our PTO expert guides, the PTO Start-Up Toolkit, offers step-by-step advice on every question on the application. PTOs can be and are every bit as independent as PTAs.
MYTH No. 2: Affiliating with the PTA is the only way to protect your group from liability.
Simply not true. Any parent group can (and should) get insured. Thousands of independent PTOs are already insured. And because of the PTO Today Plus Insurance plan, PTOs can now get the kinds of discounts on group liability (and other) coverage that were once available only to affiliated PTAs.
MYTH No. 3: PTAs have value for the entire community because they focus on children. PTOs do not have that.
This is one that really gets us going. Of course PTOs focus on children. More than 50,000 PTOs across the country are doing great work every day. Any implication that they are not is simply ludicrous and dismisses the great, generous work of hundreds of thousands of parent volunteers. Our Parent Group of the Year search (which honors both PTOs and PTAs each year) every year reveals tons of stories about all kinds of parent groups doing amazing work for kids. Show us a PTO or a PTA volunteer, and we'll show you a person giving her time generously on behalf of schools and kids.
MYTH No. 4: PTOs have no access to resources, materials, training, or idea sharing.
Ahem—it's only what we do every day here at PTO Today.
- Materials and resources: Our print magazine, PTO Today, goes out to every K-8 parent group (PTOs and PTAs) in the country six times per year. In the past 12 months, that's included more than 400 pages of resources for groups. The PTA's magazine has included about 144 pages during that time and is distributed to approximately 25,000 PTA groups only. This website has welcomed more than 200,000 unique visitors in the past 12 months and contains more than 1,000 pages of insight and support. Similarly, our free School Family Night kits have helped tens of thousands of groups put on family events to build involvement at their schools. And our added-value services—like PTO Today Plus and our PTO Manager software—are specially designed for groups looking for even more help, at a cost significantly less than the cost of PTA affiliation.
- Training: PTOs also have access to PTO Today Expo trade shows. We've hosted thousands of parent group leaders in the past four years for information-packed days of seminars and learning and support.
- Idea sharing: Have you seen the PTO Today Message Boards or our new File Exchange tool? More than 60,000 idea-sharing posts archived with dozens more added every day on the Message Boards, and hundreds of files uploaded and downloaded through the File Exchange.
Let's just say that this myth couldn't be more wrong. Thanks to the generosity of all the parent group leaders who share their best ideas and success stories with us (so that we can share them with other parent group leaders), PTO leaders today have more resources available to them than they've ever had in the past.
3. How do I start a PTO?
If you're just starting a parent group (or looking to button up your existing, fairly informal, PTO), our best advice is to join PTO Today Plus. Among other benefits of membership (access to group insurance discounts, discounts on all PTO Today products and services, multiple subscriptions to our print magazine, etc.) is our expert toolkit focused on PTO Start-Up. The guidebook walks parent leaders through the key first steps in starting a parent group, including incorporation, bylaws, applying for nonprofit status, and group insurance.
Even without PTO Today Plus membership, groups can still form PTOs. You'll want to incorporate (check with your state), and we also recommend filing for nonprofit status with the federal government. Another important first step is to write bylaws that will govern your group. We've compiled a wide variety of sample bylaws from groups around the country in one of our message board threads.
4. How do we change from a PTA to a PTO?
This is really a two-part question because the process for disbanding an existing PTA is independent of the process to start a PTO. You're not really turning your PTA into a PTO. Technically, you're winding down your PTA and starting a completely separate entity—your new PTO. In fact, it's perfectly alright to have the new PTO start up before the PTA is completely disbanded. We recommend this timing, in fact, because it helps ensure that there is no gap between the end of the PTA and the beginning of the PTO.
If you've heard things like "PTOs only care about fundraising" or "PTOs are controlled by their principals," we've covered those fallacies and other myths earlier in this FAQ.
Some thoughts on disbanding your PTA:
To disband your existing PTA, you'll want to refer to the procedures in your existing PTA bylaws. Each state PTA has slightly different disbanding requirements. In general, before you formally disband you should spend your PTA accounts down to near zero. Doing so will help avoid any conflicts at the end over who owns what (the state PTA or your local group). While we've yet to see the state PTA actually take a disbanding local PTA's assets, that action is often threatened. The simple way to avoid the issue is just to make sure you have no assets at the time of disbanding.
After that, most state PTA bylaws require that you announce a meeting X number of days in advance (often 30), and—after debate—the disbanding vote usually needs to pass by a 60 percent or 66 percent super-majority. In a few states, bylaws require that you invite a state PTA representative to your disbanding meeting and allow that person floor time to speak. This can often lead to testy moments. If your bylaws don't specifically require that kind of visit, then you are not required to allow it. If you do invite the state representative to your meeting, remember that the guest speaker is just that: a guest. He or she is not a voting member of your group, and your presiding officer (presumably the president) should control the meeting—who speaks, when they speak, how long they speak, etc. We've heard from many former PTAs that PTA officials made the disbanding process seem very difficult and that the relationship between the disbanding unit and the state PTA became confrontational. You have no responsibility to put up with (let's just call it) guff. If it gets to that point, the key thing to remember is that 75 percent of groups in the country are now PTOs, so you are not making a radical or unusual move. It's quite doable, especially if you remain clearly focused on your good work and not any hubbub that the state PTA might create. Once the dust clears, your parent group will still be wonderful.
It is OK to start the PTO process while your PTA is still winding down. In fact, this can be a smart move because it can help make the transition more seamless (the PTO can be completely ready to go just as the PTA winds down). We actually recommend starting up your PTO quietly (so as to not to confuse your general parent population) several months before you formally disband your PTA. Once you've started your PTO, run fundraisers through your PTO account and spend money through your PTA account. This is an effective way to spend down PTA moneys before disbanding and to ensure that your new PTO has funds once it's your sole group.
5. How do we join/contact the National PTO?
There is no "National PTO" in the traditional sense. Even though PTOs are by far the most common type of parent group, each PTO is independent.
That said, many folks consider PTO Today Inc. to be the equivalent of a National PTO. With our national magazine, national website, events across the country, and PTO Today Plus package of benefits, PTO Today is providing key services to a broad spectrum of parent groups in all 50 states.
6. More questions? We're here to help.
If you have questions on a parent group issue, odds are it's been discussed on our message boards. There's even a search function that can help you find what you're looking for. In many cases, the combined knowledge of our many Web users is more effective (and quicker) than a note to our editors.
If you have a question for specific PTO Today staffers, you can contact us by email. If you want to ask a general question or leave general feedback, email info@ptotoday.com.
Posted by Louise Brown on May. 08, 2008
Thoughts?
Posted by James Uhlmann on May. 13, 2008
Posted by Tim Sullivan from PTO Today on May. 13, 2008
The leader of PTO Today?? That's me. I don't think we've met, but I like to think that I'm a fairly nice person and that we do a lot to help schools and parent groups and kids. Respect your right to feel otherwise.
And, yes, PTO Today is a (hopefully) for-profit company. Not sure exactly why that's bad. Kind of like Time and Scholastic and hundreds of other media companies (minus about 6 zeros in the profit column, darn it!).
Also not sure what "total non-profit organization" means? Are these folks: http://www.pta.org/ap_staff.html ... not getting paid? Or the hundred of so employees at various state PTAs?
If there was a non-profit car company and Ford, would it be better to buy a car from the non-profit, no matter which firm's car fit your needs better?
Those are just a couple of questions. This discussion is probably better had on our message boards (www.ptotoday.com/boards). Thanks for your input.
Tim
Posted by Christina Cook on May. 28, 2008
Posted by Tim Sullivan on May. 28, 2008
I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. The "hundreds" was cumulative. I don't have an exact count, but I believe national PTA has roughly 80 employees and I believe the various state PTAs (in total) have another 130+ employees. Many states, like yours, have one employee. But a good number more (TX, CA, WA, more) have 5-10+ employees.
Tons of nonprofits have employees. Just as tons of for-profits do good work for people. Are the employees who are getting paid somehow bad? I certainly don't think so. How about when they negotiate for a raise each year? Are they not "for kids" then? Again, I don't think so. But the analogy is there based on what PTA folks say about PTO Today.
Posted by J on May. 29, 2008
Posted by Tim Sullivan from PTO Today on May. 29, 2008
Of course, we do plenty wrong. But we try to get better every day. Being a for-profit company, by the way, isn't one of those things I feel is wrong. Worth mentioning that not a single PTO or PTA pays us a penny for a service, unless they actively want and utilize that service.
Posted by Jodie on Jun. 14, 2008
Thank you for the informative discussion.
Jodie
Posted by Kathryn on Jun. 20, 2008
I think the article gives good info EXCEPT really skims over the 501c3 status.
Yes, a PTO can apply for, and probably recieve, non-profit status, but the IRS form (and making sure you do the correct state forms) is a lot of work and it takes time and it costs money (last I checked it was a minimum of $500).
Having the 501c3 already in place for us as a PTA, plus having the state office sending us reminders to make sure we do everything we have to to keep our non-profit status valid is worth the approx. $300/year we send them.
When I became Treasurer of a PTO, I learned that they had been "borrowing" the school district's tax id number when we did fundraisers. They didn't know they weren't supposed to, in fact that number was on our bank account.
Posted by jamie on Jul. 22, 2008
Posted by callie on Aug. 20, 2008
These days it seems like were playing tug of war on who's the best organzation and what we should do is work together to make things possible for a better education.
We need to go for the impossible and make it possible
Posted by Stacy on Sep. 03, 2008
We've been seriously considering disbaning the PTA and starting a PTO, since, from what I've been reading, seems we've been basically functioning as if we were a PTO. the members(LOL) and I were kind of thrown into the PTA leadership positions with NO DIRECTION OR INSTRUCTION so I'm pretty much ignorant in all aspects, other than running fundraisers and the end of year party.
In everything I've read, I've not come across anything pertaining to a PTO being a FOR PROFIT org. What EXACTLY does that mean?
Can someone help, please?
Posted by Tim Sullivan from PTO Today on Sep. 03, 2008
I think you'll find this site a Godsend in your new job. Our messgae boards are also a great resource (the archives) and tool (ask questions you have) for a new leader.
RE: for-profit. Both local PTOs and local PTAs are nonprofits. Nothing for you to worry about there. What you have likely seen are references to "PTO Today" (our company, the owners of this website and the free magazine, etc.) as a for-profit company. That's got nothing to do with your decision whether to be a PTA or PTO.
Posted by Kim on Sep. 10, 2008
My hat is off to you, I have been able to deal with PTO Today at another school before we moved and am now working with a PTA, if I could only put into words how much I miss everything associated with PTO Today! Great program, great system, idea's, etc........ KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK! From a Mom on the Board that misses all of your great benefits!!!
Posted by Tim Sullivan from PTO Today on Sep. 10, 2008
Posted by Amy on Sep. 23, 2008
Posted by Ally on Oct. 02, 2008
Posted by Ally on Oct. 02, 2008
Posted by Tim Sullivan from PTO Today on Oct. 02, 2008
While PTA supported those issues, I'm not sure it's fair to say they wouldn't have occurred (even 90 years later) without PTA. Seems like a bit of a stretch.
What have PTOs done? Tons. Are you really downplaying the good work of tens of thousands of independent parent groups over decades? I don't have the space to list all the good work.
Finally, when making that financial comparison, remember that re: 501c3 1) it's not required; and 2) for those PTOs that go that route, the $750 fee is one time compared to PTA dues which $1000+ every year, forever.
Tim
Posted by Ginger on Oct. 02, 2008
Posted by Craig Bystrynski from PTO Today on Oct. 10, 2008