Our PTA has decided to change to a PTO, mainly because we, as many other groups here, feel that we should keep all funds in our own school, rather than supporting the political views of the state and national PTA.

I first received a call from our district PTA president, requesting officer names/addresses for this school year. I told her that we had decided not to continue as a PTA, and she became very cold, told me that we should have informed her that we were considering that, and that we hadn't followed the procedures outlined by the national PTA. (I looked in my guidebook, but couldn't find any procedures for disbanding).

I received a very strongly worded letter today, from our PTA district secretary, telling me of all the mistakes we had made, and informing me that we are no longer part of their insurance program (even though we're paid through Dec.), and demanding that I contact her by December 1 to arrange for her to pick up our PTA property, including:
--All PTA minutes
--All financial records-bank statements, check registers, unused checks (paid for by our PTA), and final audit.
--All PTA publications
--Unused membership cards (again, paid for by our PTA)
--An inventory of porperty belonging to our PTA, and when we would deliver those items to them. This specifically included items like coffeepots, copy machines, etc.

My big question is, do they actually have the power to take things that our PTA purchased? Has anyone else had these strongarm tactics used against them? Can I ignore her request?

Thanks,
Linda Sharp

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>My big question is, do they actually have the power to take things that our PTA purchased? <hr></blockquote>

Short Answer: YES! There are rules about how you go about disbanding a PTA, and if you don't follow those rules you may regret it.

The PTA attempts to write their rules so that any disbanding group must turn over all their assets, including any money in the bank. There is a way around this, which is for your PTA to dispose of all assets prior to disbanding. There are a number of people here who have been through this process, and I'm sure they will be willing to help you through it.

But for right now, you may want to consider having your officers and board members remit their dues to the PTA for this year. Tell the district council you're sorry (even if you aren't), make the token gestures necessary to regain your standing, and plan carefully for your next attempt to go over the wall.

It is also worth noting the PTAs stance on this is not totally unreasonable. From their position, your unit benefitted from the value of the PTA name while acquiring those assets. Is it fair for you to keep those assets while refusing to continue to support the state and national efforts of the PTA? [That's a rhetorical question]

I am not a lawyer. . . but . . . what do you think about after following KCSwan's advice, and then setting up your PTO organization, selling the assets of your current group for a nominal amount to the new one. Once your PTO has money, buy the coffee pots for $1.00 each, purchase any other "assets" for nominal sums. Of course all this while spending down what's in the PTA treasury and building up the PTO. My guess is you'll have to continue to have PTA meetings until you disband, but I doubt you have to have them as regularly as you have had in the past. What I am thinking is have monthly PTO meetings and quarterly PTO meetings, not holding them simultaneously. Just a thought, never having been involved in PTA.

Good luck - and KCSwan is right - there are many here who have walked in your shoes before and are more experienced and very willing to help you through this.

Hi Snow -

It's too bad, but you are far from alone in feeling real pressure and negativity from state PTA folks when announcing a change.

My first advice is to remember that you've done nothing wrong, in the big sense of wrong. You and your fellow parent volunteers are still doing great work and you really care about kids. That's the most important thing. Drives me crazy when there's an implication that volunteers go from great to awful, by virtue of an acronym change. It's the furthest thing from the truth.

Now, the second part is more touchy, and it really depends on which path you want to follow. While it's certainly a possibility to just maintain your PTA for this year while getting your ducks in a row, it doesn't sound like that's what you guys want to do. That said, it is a possibility. You could stay an "official" PTA with a handful of members while you work to wind down the group. It's even possible to start your PTO at the same time. Some groups do this, and then run all their fundRAISERS through the PTO and all the fundSPENDERS through the PTA until the PTA budget is down to zero.

On the other hand, you guys seem to have already decided to "go" PTO. And you *should* have no problem doing so. You're big boys and girls and you're not hostages. I'm not a lawyer and I don't have a copy of the specific California PTA bylaws (check yours -- they're the official guide, not the word of an officer on the phone), but it sounds like you guys have not officially dibanded yet. If that's the case, you should be able to donate most of your property to your school right now. You could spend down your bank account by purchasing needed items for your school/kids/programs. You and the state PTA (should) share a desire to see your work go to benefit the kids, so there shouldn't be much conflict (and if there is conflict -- you should win) provided you're doing things for the kids.

Finally, I'd say that I've yet to come a cross a case where all the threats have actually been tested. Your coffee pot, for example, is a great example of ridiculousness here. I'm not sure that demand (and others like it) is legally correct. I'd love to find out. I know for sure that it wouldn't stand up in the court of public relations or public opinion. It's just silly.

KCSwan and I usually agree on most/all of this stuff, but here we disagree. I don't think it's reasonable. Yes, this local PTA benefitted from the PTA name, but: 1) they paid (dues) for that benefit; and 2) the local members did a lot more work to get that coffee pot than did the PTA name. If this silly demand were correct, then every group that joins the PTA better plan on staying a PTA forever, else they'll be forced/asked to give up everything they've purchased over the years. A coffee pot is a ridiculous example, but what if the group had purchased a van for the special needs kids at school or a beautiful framed mural for the cafeteria?

I'm done, Snow, but I'll just finish by saying thanks for working so hard for kids. Remember that you guys are doing great things, even if you're treated like criminals over the next few months.

Good luck,

Tim

Or, heaven forbid - what if you had put in playground equipment? Would PTA take that, too? I can just see the looks on the faces of all the kids who sold wrapping paper, candy bars, cookie dough. . . you get the point . . standing there watching as the PTA from the state or national level dug that up. (I've heard about a guy sitting in a 200 year old tree so it won't get cut down and that picture is in my head with these kids all on the playground equipment!)

Stick to your guns and let us know how we can help.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>KCSwan and I usually agree on most/all of this stuff, but here we disagree. I don't think it's reasonable.<hr></blockquote>

Welllllllllll...now there is a difference between being "reasonable" and "not totally unreasonable". Seeing their viewpoint and agreeing with their viewpoint is two different things.

By the same token, there is a difference between "value" and "price". I do not think the name value of PTA is without value. I will not argue with any group that determines the price exceeds the value.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>A coffee pot is a ridiculous example, but what if the group had purchased a van for the special needs kids at school or a beautiful framed mural for the cafeteria? <hr></blockquote>

A coffee pot is probably still the property of the PTA. In order for the school to use that van, their insurance carrier would require them to take ownership from the PTA (same rules apply with playgrounds also, Mover). In most schools, once you hang that mural on the cafeteria wall, it becomes the property of the school.

While taking your coffee pots may well be petty, the odds are that anything of significant value has already passed title to the school anyway. The exception here is that some groups take pains to prevent the transfer of ownership, because once the district owns it they have the right to move it to another school. If that is the case here, Snow's PTA may need to accept title transfer and trust the school district.