If you’ve ever been tempted to tell someone to “just shut up” when you were conducting a meeting and couldn’t figure out how to get her to sit down, there’s a guy named Robert with some rules you ought to know about. Now, lots of people groan when they hear Robert’s Rules of Order mentioned. They think of some overly complicated stuff about primary motions, points of order, and moving the question. Conducting a meeting is enough work. Why deal with all that?
Certainly when Major Henry M. Robert published his famous primer in 1876 on parliamentary procedure, he wasn’t thinking about parent groups. And his rules to “assist an assembly to accomplish in the best possible manner the work for which it was designed” go far beyond what a typical parent group might need. After all, they’re used in the United Nations, where debate gets a little more complicated than what the next fundraiser should be.
The genius of Robert’s Rules is that they work well for groups of all sizes and types. If you simply read through the rules, all of those terms and the complexity tend to conceal his key concepts. Used with a little assertive leadership, they keep a meeting organized and flowing.
- Conduct business one item at a time. Jumping around from one item to another can be confusing, and it generally delays progress on any of the items.
- Let committees do their work. Your general meeting is to resolve the major issues. Save everybody’s time by letting committees deal with the smaller details.
- Don’t allow crosstalk. Require all speakers to address the chairperson. This helps you keep control and ensures everyone will hear the business at hand.
- Limit discussion to the topic at hand. Keep things focused, and don’t be shy about asking speakers to deal only with the current topic.
- Cut off discussion when it becomes redundant. For controversial issues, setting a time limit for each speaker can help. When discussion becomes circular, summarize the points on each side and ask for anything new–or shut off discussion by calling for a motion.
An orderly, well-run meeting is better for the officers and it’s better for those attending. You’ll get more business done in a shorter time, and everyone will be happier. Parent groups that limit meetings to one hour have much better luck getting people to return the next month. As for the terms and procedures you find in Robert’s Rules, there are a few fundamentals that you should know.
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Agenda
The agenda is a detailed list of specific items, in the sequence in which they will be covered. Use a consistent order of business from meeting to meeting and distribute hard copies of the agenda to attendees. Post the agenda ahead of time at the school and on your website so members know what issues will be discussed at the upcoming meeting. And be specific. Don’t just list “unfinished business.” State what items of unfinished business will be covered.
A typical order of business for a regular parent group meeting might be:
- Welcome
- Approval of minutes (from last meeting)
- President’s report
- Treasurer’s report
- Principal’s report
- Committee reports
- Unfinished business
- New business
- Announcements (including date and time of the next meeting)
- Adjournment
Motion
A motion is a formal way to propose something on which the group should vote. The proposer says, “I move that...” and clearly states what is being considered. Someone else “seconds” the motion. Guided by the president, the group discusses the motion until they are ready to vote. Finally, the president asks for an indication of “all those in favor” followed by “those opposed.” There is no need to ask for “abstentions” (those who choose not to vote at all), because abstentions are not counted toward the outcome of the motion.
Quorum
A quorum is the minimum number of members required to conduct business at a meeting. Usually this number is stated in the group’s bylaws. If a quorum is not indicated in the bylaws, Robert’s Rules of Order sets it at a majority of members.
Minutes
The minutes are the permanent record of the business conducted during a meeting, typically prepared by the group’s secretary. They include details such as the date, time, and location of the meeting, whether a quorum was present, and the presiding officer. Specific motions and their outcomes (but not exact vote counts) are also included in the minutes. Discussion is not documented in the minutes. The minutes for each meeting are presented for the assembly’s approval at the next meeting.
Adjournment
Adjournment is simply a formal way to close a meeting so everyone knows the session has come to an end. The time of adjournment is recorded in the meeting minutes.
Tabling a Motion
If it is clear that a motion cannot or should not be voted upon at the current time, it is typical to postpone (“table”) it until the next meeting. Technically there should be a new motion to table the current motion, but most groups can agree to delay discussion without layers of parliamentary procedure. Often, it helps to appoint a committee or a member to study the issue and report back to other members at the next meeting. This tactic can save time on circular debate, especially when all of the facts aren’t available.
Resources
There are many guides to Robert’s Rules. If you’d like a reference, go with an abridged version such as Webster’s New World Robert’s Rules of Order, Simplified and Applied. Sticking to a few simple rules can make meetings more pleasant for everyone, from the president to first-timers.
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Posted by - Minute Taker on Dec. 06, 2011
My problem is having to chair and write the minutes for our meetings. I write some of my minutes prior to meeting based on the submitted agenda items.It has worked well except except participants who are trying to have absolutely every minute detail recorded in those minutes to have them serve as her work bible. This is very draining on me and I don't feel mini policies should be written up in the form of meeting minutes, or that previously distributed documents referred to have to then be re-attached again to the minutes for her one-stop convenience.
Am I being too arrogant in my thinking? Should minutes not be a brief record of what occurred - agenda items/decisions/follow up actions? Before I took on writing the minutes, the documents were like a dog's breakfast. Now, they are used to having me clarify each step in the minutes so they don't have to.
Posted by - lkh on Dec. 02, 2011
Here's the summary: a meeting was called to order at5:35 pm. No quorum was present, but nevertheless the
chairman proceeded w/ the agenda. 4 speakers were
heard. At about 6:00 pm the 5th member called in via
speaker telephone to the meeting. The Chair declared there to be a quorum, and they voted to approve the minutes as well as other items on the agenda, that had already been
addressed, b/4 the quorum. The Chair made no mention of the 4 speakers, to the 5th member. During New Business, one of
the speakers asked to address the board, now that there was
a quorum. The Chair denied the request. What are the remedies? Thanks.. I need an answer ASAP.. and, can
you cite a Rule(s) in Roberts to substantiate your response? thanks...lkh
Posted by Craig on Nov. 10, 2011
Can you hold a meeting in conjunction with a school event, or create your own event that will draw parents, like a student art show, kindergarten chorus, etc.? That would create a quorum. At that meeting, make sure you vote to reduce your quorum requirement to something that better matches your usual participation.Posted by - Mae Davis on Nov. 10, 2011
If you consistently don't have a quorum and business need to be conducted. What can you?Posted by Craig on Oct. 31, 2011
Every vote should be recorded in the minutes. When something is missing from the minutes, is incorrect, or is incomplete, you make a motion to amend the minutes. This is typically done when the minutes are read and before they are approved.Posted by - Noeline on Oct. 30, 2011
Kia oraI would like to know is it legal for a secretary to omit motions from the minutes?
There was a motion put forward it was voted and rejected. However, when at the next meeting that resolution was not included in the next lot of minutes.
Is this right? And what can be done if the secretary refuses to record correctly?
Posted by Craig on Oct. 07, 2011
Sandra -- You're a little beyond my practical experience with Robert's Rules. However, I believe division of a question can be applied to a main motion or an amendment. Also, I believe the amendment to the main motion would take precedence over dividing it into parts.In your situation I would:
* Vote on the amendment in parts (if division is approved)
* Vote on the revised main motion (based on the amendments) in parts (again, if division is approved).
If you would like a more authoritative answer, there are some parliamentarian sites on the web with a Q&A function, including robertsrules.com.
Posted by - Sandra on Oct. 07, 2011
Is it in order to move to a Division of a Quetion on an amendment if the amndment contains seveal parts, each of which is capable of standing as a complete proposition of the others are removed? Can the motion Division of a Question also be applied to a main motion while an amendment is pending?Posted by - Gail Dopp on Sep. 21, 2011
As vice president, I often run the meetings of our PTA when the president is unable to attend. What is proper proticol when the president arrives after the meeting has begun. Can I finish running the meeting without being in violation of any procedures?Posted by - Sylvia on Sep. 09, 2011
We are a new school and we are having our 2nd ptso board election. What is the best way to state this on the agenda? What is the best way to conduct the election?Posted by Craig on Jul. 18, 2011
Sandra -- It counts as a meeting even if you don't have a quorum or vote on anything. However, you should take minutes at every meeting, even if there isn't a quorum. You can still discuss business, even if you can't have an official vote.Posted by - sandra on Jul. 14, 2011
at a meeting a guarum was not met. minutes were taken. there was no voting. is this concidered a meeting? or was this gathering null and void?Posted by Craig on Apr. 13, 2011
Marie -- The reason organizations use Robert's Rules is because they provide a ready-made set of procedures. That way you don't have to write these types of procedures into your bylaws or standing rules (policies). When things are going well, it's not unusual for groups to pay little attention to Robert's Rules. The meetings go smoothly, and you're able to decide things by consensus. It's when controversy arises that Robert's Rules can play an important role. They provide an impartial reference for how things should be handled -- taking away the argument that the chair is being arbitrary or one side or the other is being treated unfairly.Posted by - Marie on Apr. 13, 2011
Our PTO bylaws state that we shall govern robert's rules however at our last meeting it was discussed that the board would like to have that removed as they are just guidlines to follow does anyone know what ramifications or legal issues this may cause?Posted by - Jack Rowland on Oct. 19, 2010
At our last meeting our president presented revised bylaws. I made a motion to change the language in on of the bylaws. The motion was seconded but the president refused to allow the motion to be discussed or voted on.Was his action correct>
Posted by - Ginger on Apr. 23, 2010
Last night our co-president presented revised bylaws at our meeting. A person from the floor wanted to make a motion to change the language in on of the bylaws. The motion was seconded but the co-president said the motion could not be made. Is this correct?Posted by - Andrea on Apr. 09, 2010
I am proposing amendments to our by-laws, baseically adding a position. Does anyone know what semantics HAVE to be in these and how they should be structured? We use Robert's Rule but I can't seem to find the wording/formatting that I am required to use and I don't want to get it wrong!Posted by Craig on Feb. 08, 2010
Lewis -- This site is for all parent groups: PTA, PTO, HSA, or any other acronym. No matter what our groups are called, we all do the same thing: support the school and the students. We don't have a section specifically for high schools, although much of the information on our middle school page applies: http://www.ptotoday.com/middle-school . Also, if you have any specific questions, feel free to post them on the Ask a Question page: http://www.ptotoday.com/answersPosted by Craig on Feb. 08, 2010
K. Lewis -- Check your bylaws for the procedure to remove an officer. Many PTOs have one of two provisions (or both): an officer who is not doing her job may be removed by a unanimous vote of the remaining executive board or by two-thirds vote at a general meeting. If you don't have one of these in your bylaws, you might want to add it in. (Typically a two-thirds vote at a general meeting is required to amend bylaws.) For either removal of an officer or amending the bylaws, you need to give plenty of notice (at least two weeks, and even better would be to announce it at one meeting an vote on it at the next), and you must have a quorum present at the meeting when the vote is taken.Posted by - Lewis on Feb. 06, 2010
Is this site now for PTO and PTA?Is they a site for PTA?
Our we all just use this site?
What information do we have for High School?
Posted by - k.lewis on Feb. 06, 2010
How can we have your vice president to step down before she be come president next year?At this time she is now our vice prewidnet and will more into our presodent sit next year.
She have not been at 1/2 of our meetings late year and just attendance 1 this year.
So can someone please let us now what do do.
Posted by - tkstreets@bellsouth.net on Nov. 24, 2009
Can minutes of closed session due to "discussion personel" state" person refused to sign evaluation at this time" for sake of official record but not be published to the public?Posted by - Jen on Oct. 16, 2009
Please help - our last cheerleading meeting went out of control with a person attending being totally unrealistic and uncontrollable. Can we put in our by-laws about a person's behavior?THANKS
Posted by - Jen on Oct. 16, 2009
Our last cheerleading booster meeting went out-of-control with one person (that is not an officer) trying to dictate everything we are doing- this girls 5th meeting and the officers having years of experience. Can we state in our by-laws about the conduct of people attending the meetings?? Thanks for your helpPosted by - scott on Sep. 11, 2009
can a president apoint a co- presidentPosted by - Lisa @ PTO Today on Sep. 03, 2009
Hi Pam-The most important thing is that you have 2 leaders sign every time -- not whether the second signature is a Pres or VP. Whichever members your board decides to authorize, their names should be on the account signature card at the bank. You'll be sure that nothing slips through the cracks if you make sure you wait to get both signatures on all checks.
~ Lisa
Posted by - Pam on Sep. 02, 2009
Signing of checks we require two signatures Pres Vpres Treas are the authorized signers. Shoulkd the signatures be pres and treasure? And if President is not avavivable should then it be V Pres & Treasure?Posted by - Allison on Aug. 28, 2009
i have a question and please help me at all if you can. I used to be in charge of donations last year for our activities and this i have become the vice president.Our Treasurer from last year is now our President. There was a newly elected Treasurer for this year. But our now NEW president will not give up the old job. What can be done about this? She is still holding onto bank statments, funds that come in she is sure to count, deposit and tell everyone how much was brought in AFTER the fact it was counted at her home.
Please any information will be VERY helpful
Posted by - Lisa @ PTO Today on May. 11, 2009
Susan- That's a good question about quorum.I would suggest posting it on our message boards, where you can typically get input from far more leaders and folks who’ve been in your shoes. I’ve posted your question here: http://www.ptotoday.com/boards/robts-rules-bylaws-legal/22282-quorum-minimum.htmlPosted by - Susan on May. 07, 2009
Is there a minimum number in a quorum? We have very low attendance at our meetings. We are considering amending the by-law we now have. We are lucky to have our four board members present plus maybe an additional 3-4 members. Our quorum is now at 10 members with 2 officers present. It has made it very difficult to accomplish any business.Posted by - Ken on Mar. 21, 2009
How many positions on a board can one person run on at one election? Can a person only run for one? two? all?Posted by - Amy on Jan. 22, 2009
Can pto meeting minutes be emailed to those inattendance? Is there a standard procedure for handling minutes after they have been taken?Thanks,
Amy
Posted by - susan on Dec. 05, 2008
in a corporation do the fin. and recx, secretaries have the right to a vote ?Posted by - Craig Bystrynski from PTO Today on Nov. 20, 2008
Peter -- What do you mean by a variance? Can you describe the specific situation? -- CraigPosted by - Craig Bystrynski from PTO Today on Nov. 20, 2008
Shama -- Your bylaws should state how they can be amended. Typically, changing bylaws requires a vote of the membership at a general meeting. -- CraigPosted by - peter vasilakos on Nov. 15, 2008
Is there a minimum number of days for voting on a variance?Posted by - Sharna on Nov. 12, 2008
Can the PTO and Principal change our By-laws in a closed meeting??Thanks
Posted by - Craig Bystrynski from PTO Today on Oct. 30, 2008
Justine -- Check your bylaws. It's possible that they allow you some leeway. It's common for bylaws to specify a minimum (and perhaps a maximum) number of board members. Some officer positions (president, treasurer, secretary) are required while the others can be created at the discretion of the president. If your bylaws are too strict to allow this, then you might want to amend them. -- CraigPosted by - Justine on Oct. 27, 2008
I am the President of our Band Boosters and would like to add a new Office and officer to our Board. Is there an "official" way of doing this? Thanks.Posted by - Rae on Apr. 29, 2008
Hi Melissa,One of the rights - and responsibilities - of membership is to vote. Unless the bylaws specifically state that a person must have been a member for X number of days, weeks, or months before they can vote, that member has the right to vote on any issue before the organization the minute after they join the organization.
Posted by - Rae on Apr. 29, 2008
Hey Barbara,Forgot - a motion is only tabled for a short time during A meeting. The motion is postponed to the next meeting.
Rae
Posted by - Rae on Apr. 29, 2008
Hi Barbara,Bylaws provide for absences and the consequences of being absent whether excused or not excused. It is unwise to make requirements in bylaws relating to only one person or one situation.
It is much wiser to examine the bylaws and find out if there is a provision for removing a person from office. If there is none, it is necessary to refer to the parliamentary authority - frequently Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised. Check with National Association of Parliamentarians.org for information on procedure and options.
Posted by - Melissa on Apr. 25, 2008
How many meeting do you need to attened to vote for the next chairperson?Posted by - Kathryn Lagden from PTO Today on Apr. 25, 2008
Hi Barbara - suggest you check out our Message Boards. They're a great spot to ask specific questions as there are tons of folks on the boards with a lot of experience to share. Our PTO Today experts jump in pretty regularly as well. You can find the boards here - http://www.ptotoday.com/boardsPosted by - Barbara on Apr. 24, 2008
Is it legal to write into the By-laws not to allow the chairperson to conduct the meeting because he or she had an excused or unexcused absence from the Executive Board meeting?Posted by - Heather Hock on Feb. 11, 2008
Good article, good references.