Edward R. Murrow : Franklin Delano Roosevelt : which is back on topic-- the PTA disbanded (no slogans, etc), had paid it dues current and didnt really lose 501c3 status according to PTA letter (well informed) , and became a PTO (obeyed its members orders, didnt originate them)

I agree with Tim


but the haughty taughty still stands in regards to the bake sale quip (what gives you the right to say that? its uncalled for - In America (and I fought and defended (US Army Ret) a Constitution) that gives me (and others) the right do do just that- BAKE (and read..., run nekkid... I wont finish the quip.. just lookup 'Edgar Friendly' in Demolition Man) and not give a ratsbehind about anyones children but mine (not saying its right but its my Constutional right)- I must follow State and Fed education guidlines but I can raise my children HOW I see fit- to misquote 'Billary' - "It doesnt (have to) take a village to raise my children"- that's all some feel they want, need or have time for any I salute them for spending 1 sec helping their children and mine. If they want to only be involved care about local politics, their school They are being a responsible citizen.

stands in regards to the quip on advocacy - It should not be done by parent groups (the well if... then who will.... comparing PTA, parents rights (its a responsibility not a right) to Civil rights is comparing apples to bicycles - I agree with Tim - start a likeminded National groups (NRA would've been better - AARP is just a bunch of beffudled foggies -- Private Soc Sec PLEASE!!!!) -- PTA doesnt have the exclusive rights to childrens voices (their parents either-- or membership would be more than 10% of the parent population) just the tagline

in regards to groups- my church, gunclub- NRA, VFW, etc are of like minded individuals that stand for a national cause (none are setup the way PTA is, same comparing apples to bicycles- two distinctly different org concepts)

In my 15 yrs of being involved with PTA's (still a member too- mainly because its the only gig in our school) not once (and I've lived in 6 different states and 3 european countries with PTA's) via survey, phone call, email, any correspondence -- has the National PTA (and I've served on state lvl boards, attended state and natioanl mtgs) have they ever asked my opinion, my childs wants or needs or what my family and/ or community stands for- Not once in 15 yrs-- but I advocate and drive Feinswine and Blockheaster to tears with my constact babble ragging on their Liberal stances and how they ignore the majority and cant get money for our schools (I choose not to do it thru PTA)

1.Yes I agree we need a group to speak up for the issues that effect our children - but where does the PTA get those issues from -- I could give you a list of 500 people (and their children) easy (I have a big Christmas Card list) that have never been asked their opinion etc from National PTA-- let me repeat not once 500 people (and their children).

2. That's my problem (and the bloated use of PTA $$$ in terrible ways)-- what voice??? where do the issues for said voice come from?? where does said voice get it information from?? What parents do they contact?? As to 1. and 2. My church does, the NRA does, the VFW does, the Republican party does, my gaming group does-- activley solicits my views-- whats the PTA's problem -- too good for me??

Family, Friends (Community/State), Country - Advocacy should work the same way our Constitution does National (Federal) cant/doesnt/wont ursurp State (Local) -- PTA National Congress is emulating Congress the incorect way - State Assemblies (Congresses) arent beholden (plus dont send members) to Congress or are attached to them in any way - 50 + 1 all separate entities

Whether a parent or family member is involved for 2 sec or 200 hrs - be it baking, playground duty, spamming Sweinstein and Blockheadster on thier idiot polices, pushing for healthy lunches -- each is an advocate for children and their school and should not be looked down upon -- I think National PTA is run backasswards and unethically but I still stand behind them if they have a valid issue be it local or national (you make due with what tools are available) to rag on them for only Baking etc - is haughty

commetmomof4;134964 wrote: :

I said "if we don't speak up for the issues that effect our children who will?" The "we" I was referring to was parents not PTA. I don't think its condescenting or insulting to challenge parents to find the power they have as a collective voice and make changes happen. Obviously some groups are doing that quite well, but its still far too few.

Annie

This is a fair point in my opinion, by the way. And I agree that parents should be heard. Parents should vote as parents and speak as parents and -- heck -- even create forceful political entities as parents. I just don't think they should do that as part of the parent-teacher group at their local school. That's a different arena. And that's where the problems here arises.

Tim

commetmomof4;134964 wrote: :

I know this discussion has really gotten off the track from the "tax exempt" status, but I also think it's a really important conversation that needs to take place. Tim, I think you should start a new discussion item about how groups can affectively engage on the political process. (I'm sure you'd make an excellant lobbist by the way)

Just for the record, not only do I not have a "high horse" I don't even like horses...or heights;)

Annie

Glad you came back and appreciate the tone. Clarifications there helped.

For the record, there was one other part of your post that I didn't address, an implication that I (or PTO Today) am somehow shirking my responsibilities or doing harm by not promoting politics as an essential part of the parent group package. My opinion on that doesn't come from any perspective that PTA isn't the right fit for the politics. I actually think that parent groups should *not* engage in general politics -- things like vouchers, for example, NCLB or raising federal taxes (or lowering federal taxes) -- at all. It's an opinion borne from years of observation and experience.

I think that political activism gets in the way of (is antithetical to) the key goals of most parent groups --creating communiuty, building involvement, and supporting a local school. Hard, for example, for an ardent voucher supporter (a fair opinion held by a lot of parents at a school) to get really connected to a group that's working really hard against vouchers. And if that person doesn't get connected due to that, then that's against the key goals of the group.

Feel free to start a thread about how groups should get engaged in politics. It's a fine topic. Just wanted to say that I think groups shouldn't.

I do see and understand when groups get pretty fired up and active on a local issue that may create the same divisive effect (like a local tax levy vote or a school building issue), but I understand that more. I still recommend PTO groups not get involved there, but I understand it more.

I'd prefer that a support group be created for that issue specifically (even if most of the leaders/supporters are the same as the PTO), so as to keep the PTO out of it. That way when the hot issue dies down, the PTO is still known as Switzerland and all about involvement and support.

I also like the Public Education Network (or local education funds) that are opened specifically to be politically active. No Trojan Horse membership campaign there.

Tim

:confused: Just to set the record straight, I never said it had to be PTA. I said it was sad that the majority of parents felt they didn't want or didn't have time to be involved in what they termed as "political issues".

I said "if we don't speak up for the issues that effect our children who will?" The "we" I was referring to was parents not PTA. I don't think its condescenting or insulting to challenge parents to find the power they have as a collective voice and make changes happen. Obviously some groups are doing that quite well, but its still far too few. If, as you say, unions and lobbying groups have too much say, too much power, that's because they aren't hearing from you (the collective you not personally). Those attitudes are why unions and special interest groups have so much power in policy making today. Did you know that if a legislator receives as few as 10 letters on any one subject, they sit up and take notice. That's because they know that that 10 equates many hundres or thousands that hold the same view point.

I know this discussion has really gotten off the track from the "tax exempt" status, but I also think it's a really important conversation that needs to take place. Tim, I think you should start a new discussion item about how groups can affectively engage on the political process. (I'm sure you'd make an excellant lobbist by the way)

Just for the record, not only do I not have a "high horse" I don't even like horses...or heights;)

Annie

4. Think globally. Act locally.

This is the main reason that many schools in our district chose to go the PTO route. Unfortunately, our state and county PTA organizations were uninterested at best and more often unresponsive to any requests for help. We have found that with a solid set of bylaws and strong and committed parent group leaders (and with the insight of everyone on these boards), we have instituted a good set of procedures and financial controls. Whether your group is PTO or PTA, your first responsibility, IMHO, is to your school community. Any action beyond that is something that each of us takes on personally not as a group.